Thanks for inviting CM Payne, and kudos to him for accepting.
Payne is a unique character. He is not at all a typical mechanical engineer. I was educated as an engineer (B.S. and Ph.D. in chemical engineering, the latter degree earned in ever-progressive Berkeley), and worked 37 years, for a Twin-cities based Fortune 500 Company that is probably the most diversified manufacturing company in the world. For the first 13 of those years I did R&D work - working to invent new products and the processes for making them. Then for the rest, I worked as an Intellectual Property portfolio manager (patents and trade secrets), with an ever-changing subset of the company's divisions as my "internal clients". For the last 5 years of so before retiring in 2021, the company's Corporate Engineering organization was one of my clients - and my favorite one. These were "engineer's engineers". Folks who designed, built, and debugged new production lines or entire factories, and upgraded or renovated existing one. The overarching theme was that after their work was declared "done", some exec would throw a switch, and the thing had to WORK. Maybe not that instant, but REALLY soon thereafter. Millions of dollars PER DAY were riding on it.
I found working with them on intellectual property absolutely delightful, because they had this can-do but absolutely grounded-in-reality air about them. I used to show up to their I.P. meetings early, and stay late, because they would "chew the fat" before and after. Often, the political issues of the day would be discussed. To a one (not "to a man" - many of them were women) - they were center-right to center-left, politically. I never met a political extremist, right or left, among the Engineering team (though I heard there had been ONE arch-conservative in the management ranks a decade or so before my time with them). I always chalked that up to their practicality - the whole "throw a switch and it's GOT to WORK" thing.
Despite his educational background, Payne is... not that. I used to meet with a room full of middle managers and mid-career to senior non-manager personnel. Maybe 30. Typically, I was the most "progressive" one in the room. But just by a little - I am pretty pragmatic, and consider myself center-left, not "progressive" as it is defined today. Trust me when I say Payne would be completely out of place in that room.
I have puzzled about that since I first learned he was educated as an engineer. I have even asked one of his Council colleagues and several people who've had dealing with him to explain to me how he "presents" in the workplace - whether there is any glimmer of what I think of as "engineering mentality" (valuing the pragmatic above all else, including idealistic notions based in ideology), and, their responses could basically be summed up as "He sounds level-headed at all times - including when he's advocating for some pie-in-the-sky thing that literally makes no sense."
So I remain fascinated by him... but not a supporter.
When I first saw that you interviewed Elliott Payne, I was going to skip it. I have enough trouble keeping up with the canidates that will be on my ballot (Ward 7/District 6). But then I said, "What the heck? He is the City Council President." I am glad I took the time to listen. What I found is a guy on the left, who I would generally disagree with, speaking passionately and intelligently about his positions. I am not necessarily swayed, but I am intrigued. One of my naive desires is for Minneapolis to recognize that we have a broad spectrum of viewpoints: from socialism (e.g., DSA) to capitalism (moderate Republicans, what we used to call Reagan Republicans). I don't want to vilify either side; we need to focus on working together for the common good. I like to think we have more common ground than points of difference. Conversations like this one between Terry and Elliott are a good start.
Elliott Payne is my councilman. He really hasn't done anything for the district , except give his blessing to already approved city projects. He really only cares about performing for the camera cameras and promoting agendas such as supporting Gaza.
I've noticed that engineers like Council President Payne can either be thoughtful and nuanced, or pushy and like to impose their top-down systemic thinking (especially around urban planning) on people, with disdain for people who think differently. Payne definitely toes the line between these two. While his public persona comes across as less strident than DSA council members, Payne's quick and eager endorsements of leftists and DSA candidates like Robin Wonsley (ward 2), Jason Chavez (ward 9), Aisha Chughtai (ward 10), Michael Wilson (parks at large), Dan Engelhart (parks district 1) and Kay Carvajal Moran (parks district 5) speaks volumes. He was also nit picky and scolding at the 9/10/25 BET meeting where he, amazingly, sided with Mayor Frey in trying to hold back a trivial amount of extra funding for the Park Board. It's unexpected because Payne obviously dislikes Frey, but also maintains that parks are important for youth---Payne effectively contradicted himself on both his positions, seemingly because he dislikes the current park commissioners who get in the way of his bike plans.
Terry,
Thanks for inviting CM Payne, and kudos to him for accepting.
Payne is a unique character. He is not at all a typical mechanical engineer. I was educated as an engineer (B.S. and Ph.D. in chemical engineering, the latter degree earned in ever-progressive Berkeley), and worked 37 years, for a Twin-cities based Fortune 500 Company that is probably the most diversified manufacturing company in the world. For the first 13 of those years I did R&D work - working to invent new products and the processes for making them. Then for the rest, I worked as an Intellectual Property portfolio manager (patents and trade secrets), with an ever-changing subset of the company's divisions as my "internal clients". For the last 5 years of so before retiring in 2021, the company's Corporate Engineering organization was one of my clients - and my favorite one. These were "engineer's engineers". Folks who designed, built, and debugged new production lines or entire factories, and upgraded or renovated existing one. The overarching theme was that after their work was declared "done", some exec would throw a switch, and the thing had to WORK. Maybe not that instant, but REALLY soon thereafter. Millions of dollars PER DAY were riding on it.
I found working with them on intellectual property absolutely delightful, because they had this can-do but absolutely grounded-in-reality air about them. I used to show up to their I.P. meetings early, and stay late, because they would "chew the fat" before and after. Often, the political issues of the day would be discussed. To a one (not "to a man" - many of them were women) - they were center-right to center-left, politically. I never met a political extremist, right or left, among the Engineering team (though I heard there had been ONE arch-conservative in the management ranks a decade or so before my time with them). I always chalked that up to their practicality - the whole "throw a switch and it's GOT to WORK" thing.
Despite his educational background, Payne is... not that. I used to meet with a room full of middle managers and mid-career to senior non-manager personnel. Maybe 30. Typically, I was the most "progressive" one in the room. But just by a little - I am pretty pragmatic, and consider myself center-left, not "progressive" as it is defined today. Trust me when I say Payne would be completely out of place in that room.
I have puzzled about that since I first learned he was educated as an engineer. I have even asked one of his Council colleagues and several people who've had dealing with him to explain to me how he "presents" in the workplace - whether there is any glimmer of what I think of as "engineering mentality" (valuing the pragmatic above all else, including idealistic notions based in ideology), and, their responses could basically be summed up as "He sounds level-headed at all times - including when he's advocating for some pie-in-the-sky thing that literally makes no sense."
So I remain fascinated by him... but not a supporter.
When I first saw that you interviewed Elliott Payne, I was going to skip it. I have enough trouble keeping up with the canidates that will be on my ballot (Ward 7/District 6). But then I said, "What the heck? He is the City Council President." I am glad I took the time to listen. What I found is a guy on the left, who I would generally disagree with, speaking passionately and intelligently about his positions. I am not necessarily swayed, but I am intrigued. One of my naive desires is for Minneapolis to recognize that we have a broad spectrum of viewpoints: from socialism (e.g., DSA) to capitalism (moderate Republicans, what we used to call Reagan Republicans). I don't want to vilify either side; we need to focus on working together for the common good. I like to think we have more common ground than points of difference. Conversations like this one between Terry and Elliott are a good start.
He is quite a mixed bag .
Kudos though to him for being in your show Terry
I agree. Some candidates are unwilling to risk speaking with someone who will challenge them.
Elliott Payne is my councilman. He really hasn't done anything for the district , except give his blessing to already approved city projects. He really only cares about performing for the camera cameras and promoting agendas such as supporting Gaza.
i
I've noticed that engineers like Council President Payne can either be thoughtful and nuanced, or pushy and like to impose their top-down systemic thinking (especially around urban planning) on people, with disdain for people who think differently. Payne definitely toes the line between these two. While his public persona comes across as less strident than DSA council members, Payne's quick and eager endorsements of leftists and DSA candidates like Robin Wonsley (ward 2), Jason Chavez (ward 9), Aisha Chughtai (ward 10), Michael Wilson (parks at large), Dan Engelhart (parks district 1) and Kay Carvajal Moran (parks district 5) speaks volumes. He was also nit picky and scolding at the 9/10/25 BET meeting where he, amazingly, sided with Mayor Frey in trying to hold back a trivial amount of extra funding for the Park Board. It's unexpected because Payne obviously dislikes Frey, but also maintains that parks are important for youth---Payne effectively contradicted himself on both his positions, seemingly because he dislikes the current park commissioners who get in the way of his bike plans.